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 Shivakoti???

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Posted on 07-26-16 11:09 AM     Reply [Subscribe]
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out of curiosity, shivakoti vaneko kun caste ma parcha, like , chhetri, bahun or newar or neither of them...


good day ahead
 
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Posted on 07-26-16 11:17 AM     [Snapshot: 22]     Reply [Subscribe]
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kumai bhaneko kasto bahun ho hajur, maile chai uphadhaya ra jaisi matra suneko chu...
 
Posted on 07-26-16 11:18 AM     [Snapshot: 11]     Reply [Subscribe]
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Now a days we can not tell a person by family name which cast it is because it is shared by many others. I like it.
In past any family name suffix by Koti used to be Brahmin.
 
Posted on 07-26-16 11:25 AM     [Snapshot: 64]     Reply [Subscribe]
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shivakoti ta dalit ho i think damai or kami
 
Posted on 07-26-16 11:40 AM     [Snapshot: 89]     Reply [Subscribe]
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Just like the Bahuns you have known, Kumais may also be Uphadhaya, Jaisi or even Kshetri. They were originally from Kumaon region and thus got this name of their clan. However, there is a false and derogatory definition of 'kumai' (not suitable to mention here) also very popular among non-Kumais. That is one of the reasons why Kumai are considered inferior by non-Kumais. Shivakotis are Kumais for sure.
Last edited: 26-Jul-16 11:42 AM

 
Posted on 07-26-16 11:50 AM     [Snapshot: 118]     Reply [Subscribe]
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I think Kumai were very smarter than the others, that is the reason of hate. Most of them did not participated in pujaa aajaa and other bramin pushed them away from practicing it.
But they were engaged government job, there is a saying " kumaaiko Ghumaai"

Think how smart they were and are.
 
Posted on 07-26-16 11:50 AM     [Snapshot: 89]     Reply [Subscribe]
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येसो विचार गर्दा पौडल कन्या र शिवाकोटी पुरुषको एकदम जुरेको छ है ;) कुरा चलाए हुन्छ \

अनि शिवाकोटी उपाध्याय , जैसी , छेत्री [Nalapani जी ले सायद 'खत्री' भन्नु हुन्छ ;)] जे पनि हुन सक्छ , पुरानो चलन अनुसार | नत्र भए गोर्खे ब्रो ले भने जस्तो आजकल जसले पनि लेख्छ surname को रुपमा \ मलाई पनि यो चलन मन पर्छ \ तर मैले देखेको छु कतिपय मान्छे लाइ एस्तो मन पर्दैन - तिनलाई सुझाब : आफु बाहुन, छेत्री, ठकुरी, नेवार भनेर चिनाउने मन छ भने surname को पछाडी थपे कसैले रोक्दैन \ जस्तै राम प्रसाद शिवाकोटी बाहुन (वा ब्रामण ), हरि बहादुर बस्नेत छेत्री आदि \


अनि बाहुन भनेको उपाध्याय र जैसी नै हो है \ खाली कुन root हो भन्ने मात्र हो \ पुर्बिया वा कुमाई \
अनि गोर्खे ब्रो पुजा आजा कर्म काण्ड नगर्ने होइन होला - फरक तरिकाले गर्ने मात्र हो - होइन र \
Last edited: 26-Jul-16 11:56 AM

 
Posted on 07-26-16 12:20 PM     [Snapshot: 191]     Reply [Subscribe]
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ba/aamalai sodhnu yasta kura budha pakalai thaha hunchha sathi!
 
Posted on 07-27-16 2:47 PM     [Snapshot: 557]     Reply [Subscribe]
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मेरो बिचारमा ब्राम्हण जाति एकै थियो | यिनीहरुमा राजनीति सुरु भएको हुनु पर्छ र एकले अर्कोलाई होच्याउन आफ्नो कमाइ बढाउँन नया नया कुरा निकाल्दै गए |
मुतुनो चलाएर तल्लो जात बाट बच्चा जन्माए आफ्नो थर दिएर बाउ को हो चिनिन्छ भनि खत्री बनाइ दिए , कहिँ kC पनि लेख्छन |
यी कुजाती विद्वानले आफ्नै बर्णलाइ पुरी गिरि भारती आदि लाइ जैसी ब्राम्हण हैन बाउन बनाए | ब्राम्हण भन्ना माथिल्लो तह जनाउछ रे तेसैले जैसी जति जैसी बाहुन रे ( जैसी ब्राम्हण भनिदैन रे ) |
जाठा छेत्री हरुमा पनि झर्रा ( बस्नेत , बोहोरा , थापा ) र बाहुनले मुतुनो चलाएर बनाएका छेत्री ( भट्टराई , अधिकारि आदि इत्यादि ) | सबै भन्दा रेसिस्ट जातिमा बाहुन नै हुन् : यिनले नै ल्याएको हो जात पात | बेदमा जात पात को कहा कुरा गरेको छ : काम अनुसार टाउको पाखुरा जिउ र खुट्टा का कुरा गरेका हुन् |

भन्नु होला त चै के कम छस | जातले पाएको हो , हाम्रो दिमागमा धर्म भनेको नै छैन | दान दक्षिणा चढाएर धर्म र स्वर्ग पुग्ने कुरा लेखेर उता मान्छे मरेर घर परिवार लाइ शोख छ हामि भने सुन चढाउ र यो चढाउ स्वर्ग पुर्याउने बाटो बनाई दिन्छौ भनि भेटि मै जोड दिन्छौ |
तेसैले मेरो भनाइमा हामि कट्टर जातिमा पर्छौ |
 
Posted on 07-27-16 3:43 PM     [Snapshot: 621]     Reply [Subscribe]
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Haha gorkhe you are right. The irony is child as a result of union between a bahun man and, say, sherpa woman becomes chhetri. How that kid is chhetri is beyond me; that kid should either be bahun or sherpa or bherpa. If mom is chhetri the kid is khatri, understandable to some extent, at least (s)he is half chhetri. Barnashram ko utpati bhaeko bharat ma pani yasto hudaina.

Bahun le aafno genetic purity (Biology says cross-bred are better) rakhna lai chhetri ko chaupat gareko chha. That should stop.
 
Posted on 07-27-16 6:20 PM     [Snapshot: 709]     Reply [Subscribe]
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If i am not wrong there was actually a Rana constitution or Shah constitution that dictated how Jaat were dropped if married outside of the clan.

Thakuris the royals - these could mary anyone and never dropped their casts, The real chetris like thapa, basnet, and such....and then bigreko bahun haru chetri lol ( same last name as the chetris but were dropped for marrying another cast...very hillarious if you really think about all these variations.

Now someone with the last name of Bhujel explained this to me.

Here are the derivatives of Bahuns and Chetries.

Pure Upadhhe bahun - the one who can perform karma kanda
Kumai Bahun - Bahun who is also a bahun but will not perform karma kanda
Jaisi bahun - Derivative of upadhhe bahun, father married a widow or eloped a wife without kanyadaan. Bahun who did not follow all the bahun rules.

Chetri - Offspring of Bahun and lower
Khatri Chetri KC - Offspring Chetri and lower
Gharti chetri GC - Offspring of KC and lower
Bhujel - Offspring of GC and lower

( all of the bahun and chetri derivatives are then grouped with GOTRA - same GOTRA is another big NO NO for marriages, if that complexity was not enough for you : ) ( interesting and hillarious) at the same time.


then there are other pure bred janajati like gurung, magars, tharus, newars,,,,i do not know the derivatives of these.

 
Posted on 07-27-16 6:51 PM     [Snapshot: 737]     Reply [Subscribe]
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You are all over the place Sidster. I may not be very knowledgeable about bahuns but I know shit about chhetris. Chhetris are not "jharera baneko" from bahun. "Chetri - Offspring of Bahun and lower Khatri Chetri KC - Offspring Chetri and lower Gharti chetri GC - Offspring of KC and lower Bhujel - Offspring of GC and lower "

Do you think Chhetris like Thapa, Basnet, Karki, Mahat, Khadka, Raut, who are called Jharro chhetri, offsprings of bahun and lower caste? LOL! Bhujel and gharti are slave (Kamara) caste in fact. I am not sure about how they originated. Probably they hailed from some notable families from the defeated sides in war, who could not be executed. IDK for sure.

Chhetris have 4 clans:
1. Thakuri: royals
2. Jharro (vassals): all the pure chhetris, who do not share surname with bahun (may share with Magar, yesko barema pachhi bataula)
3. Khatri: Chhetri mom and bahun dad. It becoms Hamal if mom is thakuri. All khatris and hamals have bahun surnames.
4. Thimse chhetri: bahun dad and lower caste mom.In past people from pure/good chhetri background did not inter-marry with thimse as they had very low status. Khatri had same status as jharro, though.

So, what you are saying to all chhetris is Thimse. LOL!!

I am not trying to be pure bred, I am just pointing out fallacy in your argument. BTW, chhetri ko jaat khasdaina. If a bahun marries a dalit, his offsprings and himself become dalit (probably you have heard many kami, damai, sarki having bahun surname. Best example: Tulasi Ghimire). But if a Chhetri marries any lower cast, his social status might be affected but his jaat remains the same.

One more thing, gotra is horse shit. Do you think Magars (they also have gotra) and Khas are descendants of rishi-munis?A Raut guy in upper jumla like Patmaara does not have any gotra, but the same people in khalanga have gotra. Does bell ring?
Last edited: 27-Jul-16 06:55 PM
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Last edited: 27-Jul-16 07:27 PM

 
Posted on 07-27-16 7:56 PM     [Snapshot: 801]     Reply [Subscribe]
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nalapani..i am not trying to be an expert here....just sharing what i heard...i am not claiming the FACTs. You are free to think yourself as a better expert as i am not.

To me, Jaat paat theories are like farts, it has many variations, flavors, humidity, and the sound. You can listen what one picks to defend but at the end it should end with a good laughter thats all.
 
Posted on 07-27-16 8:12 PM     [Snapshot: 819]     Reply [Subscribe]
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Sorry Sidster bro if I sounded rude. I am not expert either. I just pointed out what is true. I can't care less about jaatpaat, for me it's the fabrication of con-men. I am not a turd to champions castism. :)
 
Posted on 07-28-16 3:34 AM     [Snapshot: 918]     Reply [Subscribe]
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तेरी मा बापी सह उर्फ बिहारी स्वीपेर

तेरी आमा कामि ,तेरो बाउ दामई

तेरी मा डामना, जात मा expert हुन खोज्दो रहेछ तलाई त् मुजी हरियो बास मा तूऊ पर्दै लान पर्ने .

गेडा खा बंगुर को


 
Posted on 07-28-16 9:03 AM     [Snapshot: 1030]     Reply [Subscribe]
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Nalapani has clearly explained everything. I vividly remember the exact same definitions told by my grand-relatives. Most (all?) of these terminologies explained by Nalapani can easily be verified in Brihat Nepali Shabdakosh.
Last edited: 28-Jul-16 09:03 AM

 
Posted on 07-28-16 9:51 AM     [Snapshot: 1063]     Reply [Subscribe]
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keto man pare khurukka bihe gara na ho, ke ko nautanki
 
Posted on 07-28-16 11:15 AM     [Snapshot: 1105]     Reply [Subscribe]
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मेरो बिचारमा ठकुरी भनेर आफुलाई माथिल्लो बनाउन मिचा खान आदि इत्यादिका परिवार राज परवार भए पछि नया क्लान को सुरुवात भएको हो ठकुरी छेत्री | यी ठकुरी हरुको बानि बेहोरा देखि चालचलन सबै मगर संग मिल्छ अनि अनुहार पनि | फुपू चेला मामा चेली मा बिबाह हुन्छ अरु छेत्रीले ब्राम्हण जस्तै पुस्ता र सगोत्री बिबाह गर्नु हुन् भन्छन |
पातकी बाहुन हरुले आफुलाई सबै भन्दा माथि राखे |

उखान छ नि चित पनि मेरै पट पनि मेरै | जाठा हरुले संक्रित्मा उखान ठोकी दिए पछि सबै ठिक |
बिहे भोज चली रहेको बेला एउटा कालो कुकुर छिरेर भोज नै बिग्रिने देखे पछी ए उटाले फ्लाक्यो " काली कुत्तिम अति उत्तिम , खैरी कुत्तिम कथैचबम ........ " अनि भोज जारि भएको थियो रे ?
यि हुन् हाम्रा पूर्वज | No body could can beat in past. No one is beating them in present and not happening in future. They preserve them so well and looks like it will last for ever unless all the cast blend together . To be blended it may take over 300-500 years with our present  attitude and temperament.
Last edited: 28-Jul-16 11:29 AM

 
Posted on 07-28-16 12:27 PM     [Snapshot: 1177]     Reply [Subscribe]
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@NALAPANI

where are the Khas people of Karnali then? They have distinctly similar surnames as the rest of Chhetri like Raut, Bista, Basnet, etc. but they till now call themselves as Khas and generally desperate them from the Chhetri.

Also, I have heard a few DC, what are they?
 
Posted on 07-28-16 1:25 PM     [Snapshot: 1217]     Reply [Subscribe]
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"मेरो बिचारमा ठकुरी भनेर आफुलाई माथिल्लो बनाउन मिचा खान आदि इत्यादिका परिवार राज परवार भए पछि नया क्लान को सुरुवात भएको हो ठकुरी छेत्री | यी ठकुरी हरुको बानि बेहोरा देखि चालचलन सबै मगर संग मिल्छ अनि अनुहार पनि | फुपू चेला मामा चेली मा बिबाह हुन्छ अरु छेत्रीले ब्राम्हण जस्तै पुस्ता र सगोत्री बिबाह गर्नु हुन् भन्छन |
पातकी बाहुन हरुले आफुलाई सबै भन्दा माथि राखे |"

Here are my take on this gorkhe bro

1. Your statement about thakuri is partly true. Mongoloid looking Thakuris are mainly from west and mid-west, Parbat, Baglung, Syangja etc. If you look at far-western thakuris they are not mongloid, they are thakuris of khas/indo-aryan root.  

Interesting thing is, among Nepalis, 4 ethnicities, such as  Khas-chhetri, thakuri, magar, and newar have very broad facial spectrum (Most of Upadhaya bahuns look the same, so do gurungs and rai and limbus).  It's because of huge intermixing in those groups of people.

Rajesh BP bro
Khas is jaati (ethnicity) and chhetri is jaat (caste). Do you see the difference? Most of the chhetris (we also have few chhetris from Jat and Rajput root), thakuris, gaines, dalits, are of khas root. But, still there are many khas people who despite having all the surnames and traits of chhetris are not chhetri. They are called matwali chhetri. The Raut guy in upper Jumla I gave as an example is classified as matwali chhetri. They have exactly same shamanistic practices as of chettris but do not wear Janai. They were left without being hinduized/chhetrized.Most Khas people converted to Hinduism becoming chhetri only after ca. 1450 BS after the disintegration of great khas empire. If you are interested find my older threads. I have written a lot on this topic in sajha.
Last edited: 28-Jul-16 01:41 PM

 
Posted on 07-28-16 2:22 PM     [Snapshot: 1260]     Reply [Subscribe]
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@ rajesh, i second the opinions of nalapani. the khas from gandaki region and eastwards have been hinduised thoroughly and spread out after the disintregation of khas empire post 12-13th century. and the khas of karnali also took hinduistic rituals but they still follow their shamanistic dewali,masto and kulpuja traditions. the khas eastwards of bheri river dont do that generally and are culturally more and more getting closer to indian high caste rituals.

@ magorkhe, thakuri may have been a ruler post as mahat, rai or subba .there are some thakuris who look aryan and some clearly look mongoloid.since west of kali there were also other petty kingdoms called 12 thakurai and in indian mainland too there were thakurs who were petty chieftans .the thakuris of gandaki region are either magar or mix of khas and magar and their religious and cultural proximity to both these big ethnicities made them easy to combine their forces and go on for unification.
पातकी बाहुन हरुले आफुलाई सबै भन्दा माथि राखे |...-pre-rana regime ,the social fabric of nepal was not like that we imagine today . caste system as concieved in indian heartland never existed in nepal, it was peculiarly nepali in our hills.but thats not our topic today


 



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